The Multiverse – Episode #11: “Fixing the End Game (Plus Gold Selling)”

Cuba wants YOU (out of the raid)

Hey Gang,

We’re over our first big hump and coming back to you with Episode #11 of The Multiverse: MMO Radio. See that? I used our tag line. I always find using tag lines a little awkward, don’t you? Ah well.

This week, we jump in and talk about buying gold, alternative advancement, and why quest hubs are the devil (Ferrel’s words, not mine!). It was a good show and we were joined again by the good folks of Drunken Legacy in the chat room.

10 points to whoever can tell me where the sound bytes in the beginning of the show come from!

If you missed the show this time, be sure to join us next week as we stream live. You can join us every Friday at 7PM Eastern, in chat too. Or, if you prefer, use the hash tag #multiverse on Twitter and we can take your comments that way.

Next week, we’ll be joined by Maxivik from Drunken Legacy to talk raiding: past, present, and future.

Without further adieu, here are this week’s notes:

Show Notes – 03/10/10 – Episode #11: Fixing the End Game (Plus Gold Selling)

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Listen: [audio: http://vagary.tv/multiverse/episodes/multiverse11.mp3]

Intro

  • What’s happened this week?

  • What have we been playing?

News

  • All Points Bulletin Sending Beta Invites

  • EQ2 Wants You For St. Patty’s Day

  • Fallen Earth and Champions Heading to Facebook

Round Table

  • Gold Buying – is it ever acceptable?

  • Alternate Advancement – is questing outdated?

Host Segments

Shout Outs

Contact us

Things look ‘meh for Mortal Online

I’ve been following Mortal Online since before Darkfall hit retail. The game promised a lot of cool features in a totally sandbox environment. It was the Ultima Online for this generation of gamers, all wrapped in a beautiful 3D veneer.

Except, with launch sometime within the next two weeks (all we know is “March 2010”), I’m less than optimistic.

I played for a while during open beta. The game looks more intuitive than Darkfall did even after it launched. Right from the get go, the game seemed to scream out its sandbox-i-ness and beg you to build a castle. The problem was, it gave you no direction on how to do it. Actually, it didn’t give you direction on virtually anything. So, the result was a bunch of people stripping down naked and mining/logging the starter town.

It was a desert, so the place looked like the worst kind of nude beach. On the internet, there is no shame. Any female that dared log on was instantly surrounded by naked male avatars asking her to take her clothes off. The one who did was boxed in– literally– so she couldn’t even move to escape.

But, I could look past all of that if the game was good enough. It’s beta, descriptions and tutorials and limitations get added later.Okay.

Staring me in the eye, however, any time I tried to have some fun, was the absolutely atrocious performance. My computer isn’t brand new but it’s certainly no clunker either. I’ve got a pretty powerful processor and a 260GTX and 3GB’s of RAM. Even still, the game never left the mid-teens for frame rate.  With the graphics low, too, where the game really looked unimpressive.

Again, it’s beta, but this close to launch, I doubt they’ll be able to do much to bring it up to acceptable performance levels before it hits retail. Hopefully they can, (and they need to, or else they’re going to be dead out of the gate) because this isn’t the game that’s going to convince many people to upgrade. If they wouldn’t do it for Age of Conan, Mortal Online won’t stand a chance.

All of that aside, Massively pointed me towards their launch press release this morning.

We are very happy to announce that Mortal Online will launch in March 2010. As most of you know, we implemented the features planned for release and even managed to get in a few more that were initially planned for post-release. We are currently focussing solely on bugfixing and polish.

The main focus lies of course on the desync problems which both the SV programmers and the coders from EPIC are working hard on to fix. The largest part of problems in the game right now is directly related to the desync between client and server.
We are confident that with the next patch on Monday most, if not all of those problems will be solved.
It has been a rough ride for both the followers of the game as well as everybody here at Star Vault. MMOGs are never finished and we will, of course, not slow down with the constant improvement and development of the game after release. Mortal Online will release with the core features that we promised but will of course grow and mature with every patch.
There are still a lot of brilliant features round the corner and Nave has just started to grow.
This is a very important time for both Mortal Online and you, the supporters, followers and players of the game. We will continue to make the game that all of you and we ourselves want to see.

Even if we ignore their poor spelling and inconsistent spacing, there’s cause for worry here.

Is it just me, or is there a distinctly negative vibe coming from this release? When I read it, I couldn’t help but feel like they were saying “yeah, the game isn’t that good, it’s sucked for us too, but we have to launch, so buy the box and we’ll work it out.” Generally, these kinds of messages are sunshine and roses. This one sounded more like the kind of release that comes five weeks out of the gate and the developer is treading water. Replace “Mortal” with “Champions” and “SV” with “Cryptic Studios” and nobody would ever know the difference.

Color me disappointed. This game looked distinctly cool in an old-school kind of way. At this point, I couldn’t see buying the box until it’s less than thirty bucks and has another six months of development going for it.

Judging from the comments on Massively’s post, I’m not alone.

Breaking Free of the End-Game

Unlike a lot of gamers, I really like to level. Questing is fun and seeing that golden ring light up around you character as you ding is satisfying like nothing else I’ve experienced to date. Heck, I liked leveling up before I even knew what questing was. Each new ding was a mark of power. I was getting somewhere.

Today, the goal of all of that isn’t to look forward to more leveling, but rather for it all to stop. The “real” game begins once you cap out. That’s an interesting sentiment because it implies that everything that comes before is just filler, to slow us down from getting there to quick.

Level Filler

Kill Ten Koala-Bears.

Now hold on a second. I take umbrage with that idea because it implies that what I enjoy the most is shallow. More than that, it implies that all MMOs before WoW were shallow. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit screwballed?

Let’s forget for a moment that WoW is, at its core, one of the most simplistic MMOs out there. But, believing that the raiding treadmill design philosophy is the best totally ignores everything on which it was based.

Take Ferrel, for example. He blames himself, for being one of the rare “super elite” that would raid competitively before WoW came along. He acknowledges in that post that most players did not ever get to the level cap. Yet, if you asked them, most would look back on their EQ days more fondly than anything that came after.

This idea that the leveling game is filler is a new one and, really, undermines what it’s all about.

The End-Game, As We Know It.

It’s kind of ironic then, that the game that propagated the idea of throwaway levels, is also the game that delivers them best. WoW has some of the most fun quest content and polished dungeons out there. Their design is self-defeating, however, because they constantly push people past everything they’ve worked to create.

More DOTS!

Everything under the umbrella of a raiding treadmill is about defeatism for the designers. At best, they can hope for 4-6 months of a raid-zone getting used. A year for 5-man dungeons. Every patch and expansion kills off the great work that came before it.

The Answer

While there’s something to be said for the revolving door end-game play provides, it’s pretty obvious that the design philosophy is flawed. End-game play forces vertical expansions. It forces gear resets and stat inflation. It creates a barrier to any new player coming into the game. If that player still chooses to climb the mountain of levels, they then have to overcome the rampant equipment segregation that’s proliferated since before they began.

Ferrel and I agree, the answer is in slowing down the leveling process.

He would choose to do this by bringing back grinding but I don’t think that’s necessary. The answer, in my opinion, is to drop the amount of XP you get from quests, increase how many of them there are, and give more XP for every mob killed. Couple that with needing more experience to level into the 40’s and onward, and you have a system that will keep people lower, longer. This system also gives people the option of whether they’d prefer to quest or grind, while flattening out the level curve.

A lot of people dislike questing but that is the option most preferred to gain levels. The dev. team of WoW has said so themselves, WoW got quest driven because that’s what we asked for.

Why Should We Do That?

The big question here is why? Why should be segment the community and make getting to the highest levels a chore?

Simple: MMOs are about the journey more than the destination.

When we focus on the moment, we enjoy ourselves more. Mid-game play means a lusher, better built game world. It means being free from min-maxing. It means being free from the trappings of current MMO design both for the players and for the designers.

Think about how it must be for them. The bulk of your efforts must always go towards creating things for the highest level player. Everyone you design for is at the glass wall. You’re limited into a constant cycle of upward evolution. Since everyone gets to the level cap, your creativity is shoe-horned into a corner. As a business, the smart choice isn’t to flesh out the world and do cool things in the getting there, it’s to make create things to do when they are there.

When you think about it, it’s no wonder the concept of building virtual worlds has disappeared. The world, the leveling, all takes a backseat to the end-game. It all comes down to hitting a middle-ground of acceptableness where players don’t see the questing as crap.

Final Thought

To close, I’d like to hand the mic over to Spinks of Welcome to Spinksville. She’s a raider in WoW who just recently hit the level cap in LotRO. Like me, she didn’t know much leveling her character through Middle-Earth and, as a result, didn’t fall into the same trap that WoW players do. She’s 65 now, looking at the game world in a whole new light:

“It’s amazing how free you feel once you decide that you don’t want to get tied into the endgame grind.”

– Spinks

And it’s amazing how much your values change as an MMO gamer.

For someone that’s only known game design as we now find it, or is thoroughly enveloped in the treadmill, it might be hard to imagine a game world where most people don’t hit level cap.

Think about it though. What would have to be there to supplement that? A better game.

Whatever Happened To: Alignments?

My last post made me feel a little nostalgic this weekend. Like most of us, I look back at the first MMOs I played and sometime feel the need to rekindle those old feelings. Well, actually, it’s MUDs in my case, but whatever.  As I stepped back in, it hit me. I left out a big bullet point in my last post. What have we left behind?

Alignments, and that’s a big one. What ever happened to these? As far back as pen and paper RPGs, a character’s alignment pretty much decided who they were and how their journey would play out. Chaotic Evil? You’d better watch out for that guy, because he can’t be trusted. Lawful Good? Honor probably meant his life. He would live, and die, by his word.

They were pretty pivotal. Yet, alignment systems have largely been left in the dust of the current-gen of MMOs.

I think we left it behind when we decided RPGs were an equal opportunity sport. If everyone can achieve everything, what does it matter if someone can be trusted or not? If you introduce alignment based content, all of the sudden you gate people. Of course the drow can’t enter the high elf city, but don’t try to tell them that.

Moreover, what does it matter if you’re good or evil, when most players don’t even associate RP with MMOs?

I was surprised when I saw races in EQ2 were broken up by alignment. But, when I asked around, I was told that it didn’t much matter. Alignment has turned into a brush off facet of character creation.

That’s not to say that it’s totally gone. We have Alliance and Horde. Empire and Chaos. Dwarf and Greenskin. Each is based on the alignment system, which is why considering one “good” and the other “evil” is par for the course.

We also have reputation systems. But, honestly, could system be more contrived? Alignment is a choice, not an equation. But when people demand access to every sans the opposite faction’s home city, it becomes a reason to make people grind. Something went terribly wrong here. A bad design choice, lazy even, that says one option is better than two, and alignment gets transformed into rep.

Even worse, the only form of meaningful alignment left is used as a form of punishment, ala Darkfall.

It should be more than that. It should be a meaningful character trait and play into each player’s story. From that first decision: good, evil, or neutral, it becomes a means to add depth to the game. Are there deities? Why is your character lawful good? How does he feel about lawful evil? Chaotic neutral?

Some of my fondest memories in gaming are based in a MUD where, daily, groups of players from both side of the fence would go to war. There was an ever moving struggle for dominance. Goods would hunt Evils, Evils would prey on the weak, until Justice sought them out.

I always get a little excited when I hear about a game that plans to incorporate gods into their games. If there are gods, meaningful and not just on a wiki somewhere, then there must also be good and evil.

Alignments, relic of the past? Maybe, but hey, you never know.

The Multiverse – Episode #10: “Linear, Shminear!”

Hey Gang,

Well, we made it into the double digits! Join us this week as we celebrate hitting our 10th episode, with the help of our friends in the chat room!

This show was a blast to record. It was full of laughs and good spirits, as we talked about what we’ve been playing and our thoughts on this “add 10 levels with every expansion” business. Is that how it has to be and how did we get to this point?

If you get the chance, check out our Live Stream. I was struck by some strange muse and decided to skin a furby. Yep, this is what you miss when you grab the download! 🙂

From all of us though, really, thanks for making the last 10 episodes a blast. Your listenership means a lot to all of us and has made the idea of “MMO Radio” a lot more real. Here’s to another 10! *cheers*

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Show Notes – 3/5/10 – “Linear, Shminear!”

Intro:

  • What have we been playing?
  • Listener mail: Maxivik and Alik Steel! Thanks Guys!

Topics:

  • News: Congratulations to Beau and Syp for joining Massively.com!
  • Linear Expansions: Is it better to grow up or grow out?

Shout Outs:

Relevant Links:

And Syp too! Or, uh, his alter ego Justin something…

Massively is on a roll picking up new writers. Syp announced today that he would be their new LotRO columnist and contributing editor! This position couldn’t have gone to a more deserving guy. Congratulations Sypster!

PSA: Ferrel hasn’t been posting here, WP bug

Hey Guys,

I just noticed tonight that the last 10 posts or so were tagged as being written by Ferrel, when, in fact, they were written by me. I don’t recall noticing this any other time I’ve logged in (10 posts is a couple weeks time), so I think it happened tonight when I was doing some editing. Just in case, though, here’s the notice. 😉

Ferrel is still keeping Epic Slant as strongly as ever. I set him up with a profile here in case he ever wanted to drop by. All of the posts appearing here so far have been by Ryan or myself. Although if Ferrel ever did want to stop by, we certainly wouldn’t stop him.

Sorry for the confusion!

Retrospective: What We’ve Left Behind With Progress

In the last 10 years, we’ve come a long way as a genre. Sometimes, I feel a little bit spoiled, like I ate the whole damn cake, when all I asked for was a cookie. Or, maybe I’ve turned into the Cookie Monster, and want the whole friggin’ plate.

The point is, the things we used to think about as special, or never going to happen, have happened. We’re here, the next generation, which is why a lot of us look back with nostalgia; two steps from being our grandparents talking about “back in the day, my mother beat my legs with a wooden spoon.” Or something like that. Forced grouping, you know. We had to be kept in line.

Anyways, listening to Side A of the latest View From the Top podcast got me thinking about progress and what that’s meant. Today I’d like to look at some of the things that are special to me that have been left in the wake of progress.

The mid-game, end-game

Ah, the side-effect of grind based progression. Since getting to the level cap often meant months of monotonous grinding (Tobold recently stated that it took about 2,000 hours to cap out in the original EQ), usually limited by your ability to group, a lot fewer people ever maxed out. There was end-game, sure there was, but the journey meant so much more than the destination back then.

Not only were we closer to our role playing roots but, heck, we needed something more to do to pass the time during the grind. So, we RP’d. We explored. We did more while leveling than most of us do when we’re done leveling now.

Progress brings us to a place where the game doesn’t really begin until you stop questing. It’s not bad but it presents a whole separate set of issues. Where do horizontal expansions fit in a game based on getting to the end before you start? Where would they fit back then?

I want you to want me

There’s something to be said for having to group up. Don’t get me wrong. If we were still in the EQ days, I probably wouldn’t be getting anywhere fast. Still, part of me really loved getting together with other people and tackling a challenge. I feel like I made more meaningful relationships with guild mates and felt better about the challenges we’d overcome.

In the end, I’m glad I can solo. But those days will always have a special part in my gamer make-up.

Diablo, what?

Okay, this one might be small, but I loved the fact that gear wasn’t so totally random as it is now. I remember begging one of my friends to help me get an amulet that he’d discovered dropped on a special vampire mob. I didn’t know where to find count dropula and he did. And this wasn’t a “Shiny Necklace of the Monkey.” It was “Count Dropula’s Bloody Fang.” Knowledge of the game world meant something. Time and connections meant access to things other players wouldn’t have access to because they plain out didn’t know about it.

We gear up with raids and badges now, using sites like WoWhead and Atlasloot. That kind of streamlining is worth appreciating. Yet, I have fond memories of planning out a whole character with the different named drops I’d need from all around the world. I was plotting my adventure through a wide open world. I wasn’t hitting instance Y for drop X. I was storming the castle for the king’s gauntlet.

It’s alive!

Lastly, I guess one of the things I miss most from the early days of MMOs is the idea that we can create living, breathing, worlds to play in. Look at Ultima Online and what was dreamed for that. I talk about it a lot, I know, but I feel more and more like the Game vs. World binary really defines how a game will play out.

With classical MMOs, I feel like we skewed more heavily towards “game within a world” rather than “world within a game” and it showed in where some of our optimism laid. That actually has a lot to do with why I prefer named loot, too. I don’t want a staff of the boar, I want Lord Stark’s Ice.
Overall, I’m happy with where we’re at. Still, there are things worth looking back on. Sometimes the rose colored glasses can be more truthful than others. For me, I’m happy that I was around in the days of MUDs and onward. It helps me appreciate where we are to know where we’ve been.

Good times await. Just imagine the next 10 years.

How about you, is there anything you look back fondly on?

Beau Turkey to write for Massively – Congrats!

Beau just dropped the news that he’ll be writing for Massively in the near future. I’ve always thought that Beau had an interesting take on things, and certainly less mainstream than we usually see. I’m happy to hear that he’ll be shaking things up over there. If you have a minute, why not drop by and say congrats?

The Flash! In blog form.

Not Syp... or is it?

Not Syp... or is it?

Hey guys,

Sorry for the lack of updates this week. I’ve been insanely busy with life and work but I’m happy to report that I’m hired to substitute at another district as of the end of the month. Such a breath of fresh air after working for that blood sucking corporation I used to call home.

I’m on a 15 minute break from my night class, actually so in the next few I’ll bring you up to date on what’s new in the world of Game by Night.

Heavy Rain: It gets an A- for story and a B for game play. I found it to be thoroughly engaging as a piece of interactive fiction. The control scheme played really well into this. It’s officially the first game where I’ve had to hold down a button with my nose. At times, however, I found character movement to be a little bit clunky. It was also slightly annoying to find out that if you don’t make a decision within a few seconds, the game chooses one for you.

–      Overall though, I’d definitely recommend this to PS3 owners. Maybe a rental, since you can finish it in around 8 hours.

Battlefield: Bad Company 2: Good, addicting, and much better than Bad Company 1. There are lots of upgrades to work for and I’m happy to see that you get more experience per kill more than in the first game. Granted, they did increase how much experience you need to level at the same time. But, hey, big numbers are more rewarding to see.

–      Even though I really like this game, the graphics are not as good as they were touted to be. At least on the PS3. Likewise, the level of polish, map, and weapon variation are nowhere near what Modern Warfare 2 has to offer. Then again, BC2 isn’t a good comparison to CoD anyways, so it’s kind of a moot point.

LotRO: Oath of the Rangers: Haven’t had a chance to try it yet. I’ve been into the in-and-out play style lately for obvious reasons. Later this week, I’m going to try to complete Books 3 and 4 without stopping. If Syp can do it, so can I!

Allod’s Online: Good for them.

That’s all for now folks! See you soon!

Oh, before I go, remember to tune in to The Multiverse this Friday at 7PM EST for our 10th show!

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